Ep. 15 Nicola Mcgill – S4OM Collaborative Connections

Introduction and Welcome

​[00:00:00]

Ericka Clinton: good day, everyone. Welcome to another episode of [00:01:00] Collaborative Connections. A space for sharing and learning sponsored by the Society for Oncology Massage and the Society for Oncology Aesthetics. My name is Erica Clinton and I will be your host for this episode.

Meet Nicola McGill: Aromatherapist and Oncology Massage Therapist

Ericka Clinton: On today’s podcast, we have Nicola McGill. Nicola has been an aromatherapist for 25 years. She started her aromatherapy practice in England. Focused on supporting women with aromatherapy during their pregnancy. In 2003, she relocated to the United States where she and her family ended up in Boulder, Colorado. Nicola began working as an oncology massage therapist at Boulder community hospital at their center for integrative care, where she supports oncology patients in an inpatient and outpatient setting with gentle massage techniques.

reflex touch, lymphedema management, and breast cancer rehabilitation. She works alongside other [00:02:00] members of the center’s team of complementary care practitioners, which also includes a breast health navigator. , to provide support and gentle healing to cancer patients on the journey to recovery.

She is involved with educational talks and discussions, both at the hospital and in the Boulder community on aromatherapy, lymphedema management, oncology massage, and the importance of a more gentle approach with body work for the cancer patient or cancer survivor. She is also an educator providing classes to oncology massage therapists, and she has presented at the S4LM healing summit.

Thank you so much, Nicola, for taking the time to join us today.

Nicola McGill: Thank you for that beautiful introduction. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Ericka Clinton: Well, it was like amazing to look at your bio and I was kind of like editing and figuring out, I was like, okay, we’re going to talk about this, but your background is so amazing.

Nicola’s Journey into Aromatherapy

Ericka Clinton: But what I’d [00:03:00] like to do is, is give our listeners a little bit of knowledge information in terms of understanding what inspired you to become an aroma therapist 25 years ago.

Nicola McGill: Well, that’s, that’s quite the interesting story. Cause I left school very early left high school very early, lots of different reasons for that.

And I was lost. I was really lost. And I remember having the conversation with my mom. And she said, you know, you got to figure out what it is that you want to do. And I was going from little job to little job, working in retail and, you know, just figuring things out. And she said to me, Nicola, you’re really good with your hands.

And I’m like, okay, what does that mean? Is that art? Cause I can’t draw, I’m usually sick at things like that. And she said, you just have this ability, you know, to touch. I had grandparents and I would often just massage their feet, massage their hands. She said, maybe that’s a field that you want to investigate further.

And I, at that time, you [00:04:00] know, in the 80s, aromatherapy was becoming very popular. I mean, it’s always been popular in Europe, but it, it was becoming more and more popular. You could buy essential oils in the local pharmacy, et cetera. And I just had heard about it and I thought, you know, that might be a good thing for me to study rather than just, you know, doing massage.

I wanted to learn more about aromatherapy. And I. I think I was also intrigued by nature through my grandparents, to be honest. So I decided to attend a aromatherapy school and it was just one of the best things I’ve ever done in my life, apart from having my children, obviously. But it, it wasn’t, it wasn’t just about massage and touching and healing people.

It was using these gifts of nature to assist people in their healing process. And I was learning so much about the human body as well, and the integration of, you know, aromatherapy, essential oils, nature’s gifts to assist with that healing. And the school that I went to I mean, I initially went to an [00:05:00] aromatherapy school.

And that’s when I, I got, I got pregnant and I, I didn’t complete that training. That’s when I eventually went to the London School of Aromatherapy. But my first place of instruction was in a place called Tunbridge Wells in England. And my instructor was very much about, she taught us iridology to how to look at somebody’s eyes to see what was actually happening with their body.

We learned reflexology or reflex touch to figure out what was also happening. So she really taught us this holistic. Approach looking at the whole person and what’s going on, how can we support, not just with our touch, but how we can incorporate essential oils into the practice. So, for me, and I just love scent and I love the fragrance and the way that these essential oils are The life force of a plant and how we can use them with the human body. It was just, it just started the journey. So thanks to my mom, who was like, Nicola, you got to do something. [00:06:00] You’re good with your hands. But there was that, that, that ability to yes, use my hands, but you also use the power of, of nature and the gifts that we’re given to heal and assist with people.

So

yeah.

Ericka Clinton: that’s wonderful. And so lovely that your mom was part of that journey. Yes, my parents were absolutely horrified that I was going to become a massage therapist. Oh really? Yes.

Nicola McGill: Okay.

Ericka Clinton: Um, but But they, they changed their mind very quickly when they realized that it was, it a real giving profession

Nicola McGill: giving profession in so many ways, because you do, you give with your hands, but you’re also giving with your heart and your soul and your that caring, nurturing aspects.

And for me, that bringing in the aromatherapy was another addition to that.

Ericka Clinton: That’s wonderful. I bet they’re proud

Nicola McGill: of you now though, Erica, right? My gosh, what you’ve achieved too. Yes.

Ericka Clinton: Yes. And all because of everything that they gave me as well as the opportunity [00:07:00] to make my own decisions about what I did, which I greatly appreciate it.

The Holistic Benefits of Aromatherapy

Ericka Clinton: But talk to us a little bit about why aromatherapy is so effective from, I guess, a wellness or even just with people who have chronic illness. Like, why does it benefit in those two realms?

Nicola McGill: Well, first of all, aromatherapy, the use of essential oils has been around since records first began back to Egyptians when they were using essential oils for the mummification process to the ancient Greeks to even Hippocrates, you know, the father of medicine, you know, talks about the use of essential oils and, and nature’s healing plants, herbalism, that kind of thing.

Transcribed and I think that it’s, to be honest, it’s one of those modalities that we can use to treat the person in a holistic viewpoint. So it’s a holistic treatment. We’re treating the whole person, not [00:08:00] just the ailment that they’re coming in with. And I know with massage therapy and many other modalities, we still do that.

We’re looking at the whole picture, but I think You know, one of the key things I think for me as well with with aromatherapy is, is it, think of the word, I love words, by the way, words, I think the way they’ve put together is amazing, but aroma therapy, aroma. What is an aroma? Aroma is that smell, that fragrance, that that connection that we have with which, which actually olfaction is the process of smelling.

It’s connected to our limbic system the most ancient part of our brain. And this is linked to our memory and our thoughts and our, you know, our feelings, that whole kind of connection. So, I think people are recognizing that, and again, I’m just, I’m just talking about the aroma, aroma point of view right now, not the therapeutic benefits of these essential oils.

But I think that in itself, if something smells nigh, [00:09:00] we feel good, right? Wherever we’re at, we can, you know, we can take an orange and we can peel an orange and the smell of, you know, when we peel the orange, we’re actually bursting the little sacks where this essential oil is. And it’s uplifting. It’s, it’s reminding us of something fun.

I mean, I. I remember you know, just the smell of oranges makes you feel like you’re on vacation, right? So there’s that element of aromatherapy becoming, you know, it’s uplifting. It’s but I think as well, when we, when we start to talk about the therapeutic benefits of essential oils and what I want listeners to appreciate here is that.

Essential oils are kind of the life force of a plant or a plant material and that essence, that life force is extracted from the plant material to become a very concentrated, what we call an essential oil. So again, it’s got all these different chemicals and [00:10:00] I’m not talking synthetic. These are all natural chemicals that all have the ability To have an action on the body or in nature in itself.

And if you think about plants and their. Ability to protect themselves out from insects and pests and things like that. They all have these chemicals inside that create that environment for them. So with aromatherapy, the ability has been to extract this from the plant that has therapeutic effects on the body.

So you’ve got a combination of the therapeutic effects as well as this aroma, and it’s a way, I think you know, again, back going back into the eighties when it was becoming more and more popular to use.

It was a way of like taking care of ourselves. And I think a lot of people see that as a way of taking care of yourself and with the increase in the amount of books now on aromatherapy, like I was pretty limited when I was in school and we had the standard ones to use, but so many more are out there now because so many more people are doing the [00:11:00] research.

Can appreciate how wonderful these are, although having said that, I, you know, one of my concerns is an aromatherapy is sustainability,

It’s a big thing,

big thing. We have to be kind of mindful of that, you know, and I remember when I was doing my initial training, how using sandalwood, I mean, it’s one of my favorite essential oils.

But it’s now, you know, in, in um, danger of becoming extinct because of its over use and you know, there’s new, new variants on it. So there’s lots of things to consider around that. We are able to, I think that, I think the key thing around it is being able to treat the person as a whole, holistically using neuromotherapy.

And I think people are just seeing the benefits of it, more people that are using it. It’s more accessible to people than it ever was. And people are, even if it is just from the aroma. And the olfaction of that essential oil, I think [00:12:00] that’s benefiting people, if more than anything, the mind, and we know that when we can soothe the mind, calm the mind put the mind into a better place, we’re more able to move forward with whatever healing we need to do.

Yeah.

Ericka Clinton: Yeah. I remember when clients would ask me to use oils with aromatherapy in them, I would say, well, why would you like that? And most of the time they would say, because it smells good. And after a while I said, you know what? That’s really gotta be a good reason is that something brings them that joy or calm or good feeling.

Nicola McGill: The

thing is as well, because it’s. You know, olfaction’s connected to our limbic system, which is the system for memory. These, these aromas, these, I don’t like to use the word fragrances because we think about perfume as that and that’s more synthetic, but these aromas can transport us back to a place of good times, good memories.[00:13:00]

I will say though, and this is why you have to be careful with the oils that you use sometimes with clients, is that it can also transport them to a place of a bad memory. So, you know, that’s something we need to be mindful of as well. And, you know, that’s one of the key things when I’m working with cancer patients is like, I don’t want to bring forward a memory of, You know, maybe we use used an oil when they were going through chemotherapy and then years later, they smell that or when it takes some place to back to that place, you know, so you have to be careful with that, but generally, a lot of these essential oils and the aromas from the essential oil can really transport you back.

Ericka Clinton: Yeah, so it’s like thinking about them on a continuum. It’s like they take a person kind of through their life and bringing in something that, you know, you remember very wonderfully from your childhood. Could be hugely helpful. But also remembering things that may be associated with more difficult times.

Nicola McGill: Absolutely. I have my grandmother used to like, there was a [00:14:00] company in England called Yardley and they used to make this lily of the valley fragrance. And it’s not my grandmother. She wore all the time and my grandmother, I spent a lot of time with her because my mom was very young when she had me.

So I spent a lot of time with my grandmother. And she would wear this Lily of the Valley and she passed away, gosh, almost 20 years ago now. And I still have the, it’s a talc and I smell it and it’s, that’s my grandmother, that’s my grandmother. So it’s, I mean, it’s not an essential oil, but it is so true how these aromas can transport us back and bring a sense of comfort.

Yeah, when we need that, yeah,

Ericka Clinton: absolutely, absolutely.

Sustainability in Aromatherapy

Ericka Clinton: So you mentioned something that I’d love to talk about for a few minutes, which I never thought about, which is sustainability, right? And I don’t know why the idea that there are essential oils or plants that these essential oils come from. Transcribed by https: otter.

ai That are being over farmed, I guess. [00:15:00] And then could possibly be extinct. And I also then started to realize that maybe growing plant to get an essential oil, you know, requires that you follow a specific timeframe. You don’t harvest it too soon. You know, you want to let it age and grow and develop all of those magical properties.

But. But are there things we as massage therapists can be thinking about with aromatherapy products and sustainability?

Nicola McGill: I mean, one of the key things that I always, always tell people if they’re looking to work with essential oils is, you know, who are you buying your oils from? What are their ethics?

Where are they purchasing these essential oils? Are they You know, purchasing them from, you know, regenerative farming and

You know, distillation processes and it’s just the ethics around it and, you know, where they are actually getting the essential oils from. I use only a very [00:16:00] few suppliers of essential oils because I know that they follow the guidelines of sustainability and they’re not, you know, sourcing them from places where You know,

for

example, like with the sandalwood, I, now Australia and you can get Hawaiian sandalwood, different types of sandalwood, the places where they’re doing, you know, they take down the material, they, they, you know, produce the essential oils, but then they’ll plant more trees or, you know.

You know, just, I think it’s really important from where you purchase your oils from and do the research, not just and I don’t want to be disrespectful to any essential oil company out there. I mean, we’ve all got our roles and our jobs to do, but I just think it’s important as a community, if we are going to be using essential oils on such a large scale, which we are now, I mean, you can, you can go into any, you know, All these different stores, you can buy oils on Amazon.

I mean, they’re absolutely everywhere [00:17:00] and it’s like, where are they coming from? And I think it’s just, it’s our responsibility. And I think it’s the same with anything that we do as human beings. Now on this planet, we, we need to be more mindful of what we’re doing. Sustainability with everything and how we’re using things.

And I just feel that it is really important for you to really check into your sources. Wonderful.

Ericka Clinton: Thank you. Thank you for that.

Nicola’s Passion for Lymphatics

Ericka Clinton: Now, when we were getting ready to do this podcast, you acknowledged that aromatherapy had led you to a love for lymphatics. Oh, yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how that came to be?

Nicola McGill: So, like I mentioned earlier, my, the first aromatherapy school I went to in Tunbridge, Wales, my instructor, And I mentioned how she taught us about iridology and reflexology when she taught us the massage techniques for applying essential oils in an aromatherapy massage, she spoke highly of the lymphatic system and she showed us some techniques [00:18:00] to use in the, in the, in the massage.

And I just, you know, it was just one of those things again, I was intrigued, I saw the benefits from it and the lymphatic system was even, you know, back then, you know, it’s been the lymphatic system and the awareness of it has been around for many, many years, but it’s become more popular over the past 10, particularly here in the U.

1. When I first moved to the U. S., it wasn’t nobody knew what it was. I had to really do a lot of education. But it’s been used in Europe for many, many years, but she really just encouraged us to, when we were using the essential oils in, in massage, incorporate some manual lymphatic drainage techniques.

So she, again, was my inspiration for that. And like I said, I didn’t finish that school. I had my first son. And then I had my second son, and then I thought, right, now I’ve got to finish and get my diploma in aromatherapy. So I actually did. That’s when I went to the London School of Aromatherapy, got my diploma.

And then it [00:19:00] was a few years later that I was doing my continuing education, as we do. And actually in my local town, where I lived, there was a large oncology conference, and one of the local oncologists had set up a foundation with a lady called Helen Rolison. She was a sports BBC sports presenter and she’d gone through cancer herself.

And unfortunately she didn’t survive, but she set up a foundation, the Rolison foundation at the local hospital. And she was, again, you know, all about cancer patients need access to complementary healthcare. So, this big conference was put on by her, her, her oncologist and aromatherapist came to speak about the role of aromatherapy in oncology.

And my old instructor, she was there. And she was giving a breakout session on manual lymphatic drainage. So I attended and I said to her, I have to learn this. I just have to learn this. This is just something [00:20:00] you gave me the inspiration. And that’s when she said, okay, I’m teaching a class at the local university and it was a three month program. And I went and done it and got my, my diploma in manual lymphatic drainage. So I had an insight into the lymphatic system very early on. And when I, when she, my first went into my aromatherapy journey, so it was aromatherapy lymphatic journey. Iridology, reflexology, all of it all at once. But the lymphatic system stayed with me as did the aromatherapy.

But yeah, that’s how I got interested in, in that and. When I moved to the US, like I said, I tried to educate people around the lymphatic system and not a lot of people knew what that was. And it wasn’t until I was employed by Boulder Community Hospital in the oncology setting that the awareness of the lymphatic system became more prominent and more understood.

And my manager at that time said, well, this is great that you’ve got this background. Which [00:21:00] was, and I used it with my oncology patients, but then from there I was seeing lymphoedema, lymphoedema, lymphoedema, and that’s when I became a lymphoedema therapist. It’s amazing. Yeah.

Integrating Aromatherapy with Lymphatic Drainage

Ericka Clinton: So, in terms of aromatherapy, are there essential oils?

that enhance

the manual lymphatic drainage or are better at supporting the lymphatic system?

Nicola McGill: Yes, there are.

There are, you know, you can go through a lot of different research and data about oils that support the lymphatic system, which are ones that I do use oils like grapefruit, but grapefruit, you have to be careful with because it can be motor toxic and lots of different things around that oils that support circulation.

Geranium is a good oil. You can use juniper. It’s known to be a diuretic.

but you,

One of the things you have to take into consideration when you’re using these essential oils, two things. [00:22:00] One thing is I’m not look just looking at their lymphatic system. I’m looking at everything that’s going on. And so as a holistic aromatherapist, that’s what I’m doing.

So yes, it may be addressing the lymphedema and a sluggish lymphatic system, but I’m also looking at other things that they may be experiencing. Maybe their circulation is poor. So, maybe I’m incorporating an essential oil that will help stimulate their circulation like ginger. Yeah. Or they’ve got pain, and I’m incorporating an oil for pain, or they’ve got digestive issues, muscular issues.

So there’s that, you know, that’s where you’re just bringing in the, not just one essential oil, right? You create a synergy. And then secondly, I think you have to also be mindful of. What is resonating with your client, because we can put together all these essential oils saying, Oh, that works for this, that works for that.

And you can put that blend together and your client may be like, I’m not liking that, that aroma. That’s not doing anything for me. So [00:23:00] despite you’ve got, you know, all these oils, cause these are the therapeutic benefits. You’ve got to come also from a place of what’s resonating with that client and what do they enjoy.

Okay. Okay. What, what gives them that sense of calm, get a sense of wellness. And we don’t want, again, not to create a negative response by using these, these groups of essential oils. But yeah, I certainly do use, you know, my grapefruit that’s one of my grapefruit geranium are very, very common. I sometimes use some cedar wood or some cypress cause again, they’re just more on the circulating.

But I would say to anybody that wants to use aromatherapy with their manual lymphatic drainage to You know, look at the whole picture and not just focus on, Oh, that, that oil I’ve read because that’s good for circulation. There’s many other benefits. For those oils as well, I get asked this question a lot, by the way, from my, my students that take my MLD training, there was like, Oh, what essential oils.

And I am [00:24:00] going to try and put together some kind of class for, you know, lymphatics and, and aromatherapy at some point.

Ericka Clinton: Oh, that would be wonderful. I just finished my lymphedema management training and

yeah,

congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And of course, the moment you could do something. It’s like the universe opens up a tap and people just come at you from all over people.

You didn’t even know we’re struggling with something. And so it is in, you know, taking over most of my practice, which I’m very excited about. And so now just in thinking about adding aromatherapy, I’m like, Oh, that might be really wonderful.

Nicola McGill: Yes. You have to be careful, though, when you’re working with patients with lymphedema.

It just depends on the extent of lymphedema and what their skin is like. Because, again, with lymphedema, as you know, it can change the skin. And you just have to be mindful of that. And a lot of the time with lymphedema patients, they have to have special skin care. In [00:25:00] order to maintain skin integrity, but you know, that’s why I remember therapy can help this so many oils that support skin care oils like frankincense and myrrh are really known for being regenerative on the skin and they’re antimicrobial

antimicrobial

antibacterial.

So, again, they can really support, I mean, I use them a lot for people that are at risk of cellulitis.

Ericka Clinton: That’s amazing. Wow. Yeah. And good preventative care. Which, you know, with lymphedema management, I feel like it’s half the battle. It’s like the anticipation and watching for things and anticipating potential things that could be more problematic.

Nicola McGill: Wow. Okay, how do you have time to do all this? You’re a lymphedema therapist now and president of S4OM and all these things and a massage school. My goodness. Well done, you. It’s really good. We need more lymphoedema therapies for sure.

Ericka Clinton: And as I’ve reached the point of no sleep, I’m deciding to pull things out of my life, which is good.

Like you said, like organizing it so that I can manage what I can manage and you [00:26:00] know, also moving on from some things into another. So lymphedema management was the progression of my massage work. Which initially was very much about deep tissue, medical massage. And now into my fifties, I’m like, Hmm, not anymore.

I want to do another 20 years. And I needed to find something that was a little bit more user friendly for me.

Nicola McGill: And

Ericka Clinton: so oncology and lymphedema management have now become basically my whole practice and I love it because there’s so much you can do. But I guess you know, from my own education, as well as for our listeners.

The Chemistry of Aromatherapy

Ericka Clinton: If someone does have oncology massage training, and they are looking for a course about aromatherapy not even thinking about hours, but what should some of the components of that course be? Because I feel like aromatherapy is almost like chemistry. You really need to understand a bit, you need to look at your risk, your benefits, and a lot of that is going to be about how you apply or what you apply to each [00:27:00] individual person.

Nicola McGill: You know, you said, had a very valid point there, Erica, because aromatherapy is about chemistry. And I say this to my students all the time, I totally disliked chemistry, totally disliked it, couldn’t get on with it. I studied some nutrition, I went to nutrition school a little bit and studied, had to do this whole chemistry course and I was just like pulling my hair out, but life is chemistry, life is chemistry.

And I think what’s a really key component that you brought up is that aromatherapy is chemistry because essential oils are made up of numerous components, all carbon based, and they, they all have the natural chemicals within it, within a plant that are extracted from the plant to create this highly concentrated.

concentrated

Mixture of chemicals, your ketones, your monoterpenes, your sesquiterpenes, your all these different kind of components and they, and this is another thing a lot of the time people think, Oh, aromatherapy, it’s [00:28:00] natural, natural is really good for you. Nature can kill you. No disrespect. And I’m not saying that aromatherapy is going to kill you, but we have to be respectful of the fact that these are, you know, natural substances that can kill people.

It’s like, that’s why some plants do. If you eat a plant, it can kill you because it contains all these kind of chemicals. So I think it’s important that if you do any aromatherapy training, You have a good foundation of understanding the chemistry, and I’m not saying you need a degree in chemistry, but you need to have an understanding of how these chemicals interact, especially when they, they become present within the human body.

And it’s one of the reasons why, you know, I’m not a big proponent of oral ingestion of essential oils, because, you know, again, we don’t know how they’re interacting with the body. And, you know, in Europe, you can only really ingest essential oils if you’re a medical practitioner. So if you’re, you know, a practitioner that studied in [00:29:00] that And so, you know, having a good foundation and with the, with the chemistry and also safety and knowing about what are safe dilutions.

And again, all essential oil should be diluted. You should never use them in any shape or form. They need to be diluted in a carrier such as a vegetable oil. And also someone that’s going to really kind of explain, you know, that, you know, that holistic use of them, how you make blends and how you can create a synergy, understanding, you know, the different chemotypes.

Chemotypes is a big thing in the world of infeccential oils because it can be the same plant, but they have different, what they call different chemotypes. There’s different chemotypes and so understanding the Latin names as well for each of the plants and what the plant families.

So I think there’s quite a few good courses here now in the U. S. and I mean, I’m not gonna mention names, but I’m sure people wanted to get more information they could from [00:30:00] me or yourself. But there are a couple of classes here that, you know, at least a 200 hour program. If you, minimum, minimum 200 hour program.

If you are going to really look at using essential oils in your workplace. Obviously there’s more extensive programs if you want to become a clinical aromatherapist. But you know, a weekend workshop is just, it’s not going to give you enough information to use it safely. And we have to remember that these essential oils, when they do get into the body, whether it’s from olfaction, where these molecules reach the cilia in the nose and get into the, into the body that way.

Or we’re applying them on the skin through a carrier that a certain amount of them are going to be absorbed. A lot of the time when we apply them to the skin, they evaporate, essential oils do evaporate. And that’s another thing you can learn about your, you know, your heavier notes with the oils, with your base notes and your top notes, et cetera.

But the body, in fact, you know, your liver is your [00:31:00] detoxification organ. Your liver takes all that on board and, you know, breaks them all down before they actually get to where they need to go. And so that’s where. When we do use essential oils, we also have to remember that, you know, as much as that concentration is, it’s not all going in the body, the body’s going to break it down, but you still need to be mindful with your level of dilutions, depending on who you’re working with, particularly oncology clients, because they are already processing their chemotherapy, their immunotherapy, their radiation, you know, the impacts of anesthesia for their surgeries.

All of these things that, as. Obviously, all oncology massage therapists know this, so I don’t want to be preaching to the choir here. But then when you add, you know, they’ve got their medications and then you add some essential oils, you want to just make sure that it’s just, you know, appropriately diluted for where they’re at right now.

And it’s the same, you know, with, with pregnancy, you want to, you know, we watch our dilutions with pregnancy, you watch your [00:32:00] dilutions with the medically frail. But that’s where good level of. Aromatherapy training can, can, can help support you so that you can, you know, first do no harm and mainly support your client.

Ericka Clinton: Wonderful.

chemistry. Chemistry. I

Nicola McGill: mean, even when we cook, when we cook, that’s chemistry and it’s, it’s so interesting to think about it in that way, because we just, we just don’t, we just think of equations. And that’s the worst thing for me with chemistry. I mean, I find it fascinating, but. Equalizing all the, the equations is like not good for me, but everything we do is chemistry.

Even when we put something on their skin, we cook, we make a cup of tea. That’s chemistry. That’s the components from the tea leaves, you know, moving into the water. So we have a respect for that. And you’re talking about, you know, getting into your fifties, I’m in my fifties, probably a bit more than you.

I’m halfway through my fifties now. You appreciate things differently, so much more. And you can see how it all relates to how we [00:33:00] are as human beings. Thanks.

Ericka Clinton: Yeah, you appreciate more. I think also. Yeah, so things can be more subtle and still magically beneficial.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Ericka Clinton: Yes Well, thank you so much, Nicola. I’ve enjoyed this so much.

Been a real pleasure. And I think we touched on a lot of things that’ll be really good for our community to hear. I hope so.

Nicola McGill: I hope so. I hope it’s been some inspiration too.

Ericka Clinton: Oh, good, good, good. And I’m really looking forward to seeing you again, hopefully at one of our events, our healing something because you’re wonderful and you have so much to share.

Thank you. I am so

Nicola McGill: grateful that you’ve given me the opportunity and. To be able to be part of a community that’s all about helping others and supporting others on whatever stage they are of their journey. Thank you. Thank you.

Ericka Clinton: All right. Collaborators have a great day.

[00:34:00]